AOPA Members DO more LEARN more SAVE more - Get MORE out of being a pilot -. They caught a wing and oveturned, but everyone was safe. Willing to purchase them from you. Avantair and the FAA may call it voluntary, but it's all semantics. Frequent heading changes are required to stay in the area and this allowed me to quickly get a feel for the Avanti. Sounds like they are on life support and being read their last rights. And while I have spoken mainly about our pilots, I would like to commend my fellow employees, especially maintenance, in the other departments. Furloughs.too bad. I love the plane and at first the service was fine. The fuel penalty for flying in the 20s is not as extreme as it is in turbofan airplanes. In the end, the Avanti IIs configuration allows it to achieve light jet speeds in the same way as light jets do, by using a very small, highly loaded wing to go with a good dose of power. While the rate of climb is great, one thing the Avanti II doesnt do is climb or descend at very high indicated airspeeds, the former a condition of available thrust. One thats lacking is the single FMS. Grant has been flying the Avanti for years with thousands of hours of experience in the airplane, much of it under typical charterlike conditions. Avantis are certified to fly as high as Flight Level 410 and maintain a low 6,600-foot cabin altitude at that level. Villi and I then headed to Genoa for some instrument approaches. Viewing this report requires Adobe Reader be installed on your device. A traffic target can be out of view in certain positions, at around 2 oclock for the left-seater or 11 oclock for the right-seater. First, the gear came down below 180 knots, then mid- and finally full-stage flaps and we were nicely stabilized at 500 feet. The release I posted above came directly from Avantair media relations. Arriving at the FBO there, the crew were shocked to find the owner and his colleague outside the FBO, on the ramp, unsupervised, waiting for the aircraft to arrive. Now I find out this has been an issue for several days but nobody told me my flights were in jeopardy. As the flaps travel, there is a nose up pitch that is easily counteracted with slight forward pressure on the column and trim. The Avanti feels very stable and is easy to maintain altitude in while hand-flying compared with other airplanes in and around its class. 36 dated 11 April 2019 to the P.180 Avanti Pilot's Operating Handbook and AFM (Report 6591). The shape, youll see, is not simply for show, though ironically it shows very nicely. I still recall going into one of the back hangers and see MX personal taking parts off of other P180s and putting them on other P180s. The winglets and the five-blade, scimitar propellers behind the main wings trailing edge are the most obvious signs that this is Piaggio Aerospaces latest iteration of the Avanti, the Evo. The sharp sweepback of the horizontal stabilizer ensures the elevators cannot be aerodynamically blanked by the main wing during a stall and thus remain effective throughout, and the main wing, with its high aspect ratio, is positioned behind the rear pressure bulkhead so that the spar does not pass through the passenger cabin, giving an uninterrupted length of 14.93 ft. There is no elevator in it; hence, its not a canard. When we resume operations, we will have the most reliable fleet in our industry embracing the highest standards in aviation, said Mr. Santo. Findings as to risk: http://www.avantair.com/filings.html. Please specify the source for your statement. I can't speak for the maintenance personnel involved in this, but I know that the pilot and co-pilot were both fired for failure to perform a pre-flight check. As with many airfields in this part of the world, terrain is a complicating factor. How do I get out of my lease and is there an opportunity for owners to get together to take action? But, I'm sure that you could have done much better. The effect is a view that changes substantially as you point the nose up or down in various phases of flight. pilot operation, so when a small amount of fogging briefly appeared on my (right) screen, the clear pattern would allow the left-seat pilot adequate visibility. To date, of the aircraft in the fleet that have been inspected, there have been no compliance or airworthiness issues. Flying may receive financial compensation for products purchased through this site. Pete Bedell is a pilot for a major airline and co-owner of a Cessna 172M and Beechcraft Baron D55. WebThats why the Piaggio Aero P180 Avanti II is a green aircraft. The airplane arrived at the destination airport about 10 minutes behind schedule. Have been looking everywhere for these. Once on the runway and cleared for takeoff, we checked to make sure the flaps were set for takeoff and the steering was too there are different modes depending on how fast youre traveling though theres no tiller and that our trims and condition lever were correctly set. The idea behind the Avanti has always been remarkably simple and completely outside the turboprop box. Where the two designs are in accord is that they are both largely stall proof. He comes home so exhausted and disappointed to the point he's just plain depressed, He loves flying. Comments since yesterday, Oct. 25, seem oblivious to the safety of flight issues. These were retracted as we accelerated toward 160 knots. After wed checked figures at 380, we headed down briefly to FL 320 on the way back to Dallas. In other words two failures and occured. So as fast as it is at cruise, its block times suffer as a result of the climb speed and relatively low Vmo (260 indicated) and Mmo (Mach 0.70) limitations. We continued to decelerate and shortly after selecting landing flaps, I turned toward the hillside on my left to line up with the runway as we passed through 600 feet. The anhedral of the forward wing ensures there is no aerodynamic interference with the engine intakes and assists in stall handling. Whatever the outcome, it was and is an honor and a blast to serve our Owners and work with my fellow VNR employees. Hah, you think the owners don't care about safety? While the forward wing is not fitted with an elevator, it does have a flap, or set of flaps, depending on how you look at it. But that there are some management issues. We leveled off at FL350 19 minutes after takeoff, I left the torque at 75 percent, and allowed the Avanti to accelerate to Mach 0.64 with an indicated airspeed of 216 knots and a TAS of 373 knots. Flying the Avanti II Discretion being the better part of valor, I extended the gear early and reduced speed to deploy the flaps, intending to stabilize nice and early so I could concentrate on flying as accurately as possible. Ive removed Kyles email address above since this is not a pilot placement service, and Ive also deleted a charter companys post trolling for business from Avantair customers. Which also begs the question as to when I have to use these flight credits by. A CEO and board that has taekn this company into a downward spiralouot of business in 3 monthsnice stock price!! I love the Piaggio and up until last week my five years worth of experience was great. Its a hard transition for a pilot coming back to PT6s after having flown modern fadec turbofans from Williams and, yes, from Pratt & Whitney. "Piaggio gets confirmation of Avanti speed records". AINonline. Aviation International News. Archived from the original on 5 September 2018. Retrieved 16 June 2017. ^ Aboulafia, Richard. To demonstrate the first stall, Villi leveled at 15,000 feet, and with the power levers remaining closed, we decelerated at 1.5 knots per second as shown by the purple trend vector on the PFD airspeed strip. With the hammer down and in the low 30s, Avanti IIs can hit 400 KTAS on 800 pounds per hour. Copyright 2023 Flying Media. It has delivered nearly 200. I was told my aircraft was on extended maintenance (whatever that meant, now I know). That said, they never even sent me a quote, which I got elsewhere for a king air (and a Lear 55, I am taking the King Air). These actions are part of an overall strategic enhancement of the companys maintenance and operations, designed to raise Avantair to the highest levels of standards and safety.. Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited. Of course, with higher operating weights you wont be able to carry as much fuel or, hence, get as much range, though the truth is that most flights in a 400-knot airplane are less than 1,000 nm anyway, and with a thousand-mile range as the target, you can liberally load the P.180. I wont get into the details of it here, but suffice it to say Grant was busy with taking notes as I flew the airplane. Piaggio P.180 AFM TC No. So to Don, you dont happen to live in Vegas do you? My husband works for Avant and is currently wondering what's happening as well Well, pretty much all sold out. For the past week, we have been undertaking extensive inspections of our fleet and our operating procedures. In the process it doesnt hurt one bit that the Avanti II just so happens to be one of the sleekest and most beautiful airplanes ever built. Please note that not all records are available electronically. The flare required is very small, just enough to cushion the touchdown, so the nose drops very quickly to the runway. The main wing of the airplane is very small (172.2 square feet, slightly less than a Cessna 210s) and very highly loaded. Seats / up to 11 On the Avanti, each unique characteristic of the aircraft is firmly rooted in function. P180 Avanti Pressurization System. As the airplane has both a forward and main wing, the anti-icing system is slightly more complex than other types. The forward wing (not to be called a canard, as it has no moving flight controls other than forward flaps) is positioned on the underside of a gracefully sweeping nose and is home to two pitot tubes underneath and, unusually in Western types, has a significant anhedral. He said the airplane was slightly right of the runway centerline and that there was a right crosswind. Oh, and "coincidentally" perhaps, I got an email request for some documents that they were missing from my file yesterday, which I sent over. Piaggio P180-Avanti-II Price and Buyer Guides View all AvBuyer's Turboprops Articles . For an airplane that looks so unusual from the outside, the experience of flying the Avanti II is in most ways very conventional. It is by far the worst disorganized fractional and needs a miracle of improvement. During the descent, we briefed for some stalls, the handling qualities of which Villi was obviously keen to show me. After two major incidents/accidents in eight months are not all fractional owners, their employees and their families scared to hell for their own safety??? I am disappointed that there has been no communication out to the owners about this grounding and if you go to their website it doesn't mention anything and it looks like business as usual. I'm not saying that maintenance or pilots did not make mistakes, but it helps to know the entire story before a rush to judgement. If anyone in North Florida is interested let me know. On Saturday, fractional provider Avantair grounded its entire fleet of about 60 Piaggio Avanti twin turboprops to conduct a comprehensive examination of all maintenance records and aircraft. According to industry sources, the action stemmed from an incident earlier this year in which an Avantair Avanti shed an elevator in flight. RMR, I'm in Jacksonville Florida but I am going so start looking for a partner or two to buy something together. A lot of the airplane have recurring maintenance problems that just get put off until something really breaks and the airplane is grounded. source: Only records that are readily The trade off is the fact that the Avanti has jet-like runway performance limiting it to runways 5,000 feet or longer, generally, depending on weight and density altitude. It is not, at least not primarily. When the crew explained that MYF was below approach minimus due to the CAT B limitation, the owner used abusive language and accused them of lying. But this time no airplanes will return to service until next week, if ever. Piaggios P180 Avanti created quite a splash with its 1990 certification in the United States. No nose was visible ahead, but down and to the right from my seat I could see the tip of the forward wing and the shapely winglet was at my four oclock. Piaggio succeeded in its design goals to create a large cabin as well as a very fast design that puts it squarely in the light jet arena. Its also remarkably wide for an airplane of its size. Reaching ahead between the forward cabin bulkhead, he lifted the left-side pilots seat to provide a clear floor area on which to stand. WebFlightSafety offers the only formal pilot and maintenance training programs available for the Piaggio P.180 Avanti, the Avanti II and the Avanti EVO. Like the Starship, the Piaggio Avanti features a canard and rear-mounted engines. But the Avanti is made mostly of aluminum, not composites. It weighs thousands of pounds less than the Starship and is about 60 m.p.h. faster. ^ Martin, Ed (29 October 1989). I would especially reach out to Mr. Norris and others and hope that we will be able to serve you again in the future. We owned a King Air 200 several years ago in partnership with another company which was great except the other company ran into trouble and couldn't pay their half. The lower section, containing two integral carpeted steps, is released by a handle on the left and lowered into position. Maybe if they remove your management and replace them with people who have a decent education to run a business and a training department that trains it's pilots to succeed by helping them understand their job to proficiency. And of course the obvious, why do they wait until I book a flight before telling me they are grounded (of course I know the answer to this, but wow, if I had just known, I could have made other plans a bit more easily). This story is already out of date, as of today, 10/25/12, the entire is fleet is grounded for the foreseeable future. Passenger oxygen deploys at 13,000 feet. The engines have pneumatic boots on the intake combining with an engine particle deviator door to avoid ice entering the engine core and a warm bleed air supply to the engine oil cooler intake. The plan for my flight was to climb to 30,000 up to the Wichita VOR to do something Id never done before, an RVSM check. The owners got into another Piaggio and flew again. In simpler terms, that means the engines maintain their 850 shaft horsepower to a higher altitude thereby increasing true airspeed of the airplane through the thinner air. The Nov. 16, 2011 engine failure and emergency landing at Flint, MI and veering off the runway and flipping on its back (all 4 occupants suffered minor injuries) shows pilot poor skills for sure and serious concern about engine maintenance. Piaggio can do it, too. Don, sorry about your situation and lack of communication. Max cruise speed / 400 KTAS Companies in trouble do this to avoid the panic of "furlough" status. If range is the mission, getting the Avanti up to FL410 and cruising about 300 KTAS will yield a near-1,500 nautical mile range while still cruising as fast as the competition. Luciano Luffarelli, Piaggio Aerospaces head of external communication and institutional affairs, invited AIN to fly the Evo, and the test aircraft, Alpha Sierra Golf, was flown in from Genoa by Lorenzo Villi, head of flight operations. I know both crews involved in the Flint, MI and the elevator incident. I asked Grant to put the gear up on positive rate of climb, and soon thereafter I called for the flaps to be retracted. I think that it should be obvious to everyone here that comments by Mandarin Jet and a few others should be taken with a grain of salt. The windshield is deep and sharply raked back, which along with the ventral delta fins, perhaps alludes to the shared Learjet origin from the 1980s. We are grateful for their understanding and patience as we work through this important process. Neither ASN nor the Flight Safety Foundation are responsible for the completeness or correctness of this information. 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